Safe Sex?

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Feb 012009
 

For last weeks HNT I wrote about one of our trysts with Southern Vixen during our weekend with her.  And I described how I ejaculated on SV, followed by the ladies using their fingers and tongues to clean up my cum [crude, yes, but that's what happened]. A reader commented:

But just one sober note – didn’t the exchange of bodily fluids at the end rather cancel out the whole point of the condom?

I’ve previously mentioned that we always practice safe sex, even if the use of condoms is not explicitly mentioned in the post.  Apparently the reader feels that by sharing bodily fluids in this manner that we did not actually have safe sex.

This post is not meant to debate the reader who commented on what does or does not constitute safe sex.  Anyone who is sexually active, but not monogamous, presumably practices some form of safe sex.  [I'm assuming that monogamous couples at some point cease to use protection at some point, but there are certainly exceptions to that assumption.  Let's not quibble about unimportant details, ok?]

All Veronica and I are doing here is sharing how we practice safe sex and how we rationalize those practices.

Southern Vixen and SwingerWife, while I have a pretty good idea how you both feel on this matter, I didn’t want to presume to speak for either of you.  Feel free to get up on your soapbox in the comments, if you’re so inspired!

The bottom line is that I always wear a condom when having vaginal sex with anyone other than Veronica.  And any of her male partners must wear a condom during vaginal sex with her.  [The same would go for anal sex, though that has not happened with other partners.  Yet ;-) ]

No, we do not use protection during oral sex.

Are we exposing ourselves to risk?  Yes.

Is the risk lower than during vaginal sex?  Yes, and scientific evidence supports that conclusion.

For that reason, we are comfortable with our decision, but at the same time we respect those who disagree and would argue that more protection is needed.

So what about testing?  To be perfectly honest, that is something we haven’t discussed much.  Veronica and I were monogamous for 18 yrs before we got involved in the lifestyle, so it’s never really been an issue before.  At some time (when?), we should both get tested, just to be sure, and we should occasionally get retested as long as we are fucking others.

Over the course of last summer Veronica and I had a number of heart to heart talks about desires and fantasies, all prior to any play with others.  We explicitly discussed what we would be comfortable with.  Sex acts were mentioned, hypothetical scenarios were discussed, and feelings were shared.  Integral to all of this talk were discussions of safe sex.  Our safe sex practices are not some ‘default’ position, they are the result of discussion and agreement about what we consider safe.

Many personal ads on lifestyle websites mention desiring partners who are drug/disease free, yet in our experience no one has asked for, nor has anyone offered, proof of disease-free status.  Do any of my readers have contrasting experience?

So, dear readers, so any of you agree with the commented quoted at the start and feel that by taking my cum in her mouth Southern Vixen was not practicing safe sex with me, even though a condom was worn when I was fucking her?

Do any of you use some sort of barrier device during oral sex?

If any of you are considering the swinging lifestyle, I strongly encourage you to include discussion of safe sex with your partner.  You are having discussions with your partner before you start swinging, right?  Right?

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  • http://secretdesiresandwhining.blogspot.com/ holly

    my two cents…not basing..AT ALL!!! anyway. IMO ejaculate in your mouth is risky. Now, it may be a risk you are willing to take, but i would assume if your cum is in “my” mouth that is no safer than unprotected sex, except of course for the risk of pregnancy. I know the risk of spreading disease via oral sex is lower…but does that include the ingesting of cum??? I don’t know..maybe you do. Enlighten me oh swinging one! (also, do you guys worry at all about things that can be spread even with the use of a condom…just via skin to skin contact? just curious, i know you aren’t picking up partners in alleys…at least i hope not *wink*)

    xoxox
    holly

    Holly: Apparently cum in the mouth is a risk that SV is willing to take. But that is something that Veronica will not do with other men, though she will go down on another woman. Perhaps SV will comment (I hope so). Skin to skin contact? Not really a concern. Most if not all STDs are transmitted via bodily fluids and mucous membranes.

  • http://acquiescentleigh.blogspot.com/ Elspeth

    Performing oral sex on a man without protection (up to and including spitting or swallowing), is not safe sex. During any such activity a variety of sexually transmitted infections can be passed between you, including the following: chlamydia, gonorreah, hepatitis A, herpes, HPV, shigella, syphillis, HIV, hepatitis B.

    Hubman: Thanks for the sex ed lesson (note gentle sarcasm…). I never said that oral sex on a man without protection is safe sex. I maintain that it is LESS risky than unprotected vaginal sex and stand by that statement. Thanks for your comment.

  • Lilly

    In your previous post this is what you said “Veronica was watching intently as I came on Southern Vixen’s belly and pussy”. IMO this is not safe sex on SV’s part.

    Hubman: To clarify, what I should have said was that I came on her belly and pussy mound. Don’t know if this makes a difference, just sayin’.

  • sally

    You are taking risky chances….

    Hubman: Hello, sweet cops wife! In your opinion, we are. We’ve considered the risks and are comfortable with our actions. This is something we continually think about and don’t take lightly.

  • Spankingbarbie

    I have always used a condom with vaginal/anal sex….I have never with oral sex and i do swallow. Hmmmm. Guess it’s a chance I have been willing to take. And I HAVE been tested.

    Hubman: Thanks for your comment. It seems we are in agreement about chances we are willing to take.

  • http://acquiescentleigh.blogspot.com/ Elspeth

    *blinks* Um … you asked the following question: “So, dear readers, so any of you agree with the commented quoted at the start and feel that by taking my cum in her mouth Southern Vixen was not practicing safe sex with me, even though a condom was worn when I was fucking her?”

    That is, was safe sex being practiced?

    I merely answered the question: this isn’t safe sex. Not sure why doing so deserves a (gently) sarcastic response? Um, yes I named some STIs … *shrug*

    Hubman: I was sarcastic because you just stated the obvious, in addition to answering the question.

  • MDStudent

    Both pre-cum and semen can transmit STDs and even the HIV virus. So, by definition, swallowing a stranger’s cum is NOT practicing safe sex. Yes, there is less risk of contracting an STD/HIV via oral sex or ingesting semen than vaginal or anal sex but a risk is a risk. If there’s even a 1% chance that these practices are not safe, why even risk it? Is the risk really worth it for just fleeting moment of “naughtiness”? I agree with the person who originally posed the question. You don’t really practice safe sex 100%. And I say this not only from opinion but also from medical experience as I’m a 4th year medical student.

    Hubman: So are you advocating abstinence or dropping out of the lifestyle? EVERYTHING we do in life has some element of risk. Nothing is 100% safe. It’s a matter of what level of risk is acceptable. To us, unprotected oral sex, with people we know well, is acceptable.

    4th year medical student? Should I be impressed? But what do I know, I just have my Ph.D. in Physiology.[Bracing for "SO YOU SHOULD KNOW BETTER" comments....]

  • http://amidlifescrises.blogspot.com/ danalu

    I will say that as long as all participants are in agreement with their comfort level with your SAFER sex practices (as there is no such thing as “safe” sex – only safe abstinence), then do whatever trips your trigger. But, to tout your standards as “safe sex” is a little misleading. Safer? Yes! Safe? No …

    Hubman: In retrospect, I agree, safer sex would be the correct description.

  • http://makingofamistress.blogspot.com/ Sexy Other Woman

    I do believe we have broached this topic before. I have tried oral with condoms. Supposedly they were flavoured to enhance the oral experience. But it still tasted like latex and it was technically much more difficult. I didn’t enjoy it all.

    Like you, I insist on protection for vaginal and anal sex. But as for the oral – yech! Anyone out else there actually tried safe oral?

    Hubman: Hey, the first person to mention trying oral with a condom! Thanks for your comment.

  • http://theworldisaplayground.blogspot.com/ colly900

    I’ve never used a condom for oral, and except for my wife I always use a condom for vaginal sex, except with my wife. I also go out to get tested every few months. So far I have either been lucky or safe, I’m betting on safe.

    Enjoy the oral :)

  • kateanon

    When I was actively involved in the lifestyle – I had access (in a purse or something) to test results and only played with those who could verify their status. That was my choice and sometimes it was met with rudeness. I’ve always demanded condoms for oral as well as anal and vaginal penetration and if and when I noticed others I was interested in playing without – I was more reluctant to play with them. I had no problem lessening up on the oral rule once a level of trust was established.

    It’s a matter of personal preference and opinion.

  • blore

    As the guy who inadvertently started it all, I suppose I should join in. Hubman has made his position clear – he and ASM know their practices are not fully safe but, after due consideration, have decided on the level of risk they are comfortable with. I am sure there are as many who think they are over-cautious as who think they are foolhardy. I took no stand in my original comment, but just noted what seemed paradoxical to me.

    Hubman: Thanks for your comment. I realized that your original comment did not take a stand one way or the other and recognize the paradox you pointed out. Your comment did stimulate some conversation between ASM and I, and we decided to use your comment as a springboard for this post.

  • Wayward Wife

    This is not a critique of your safe sex practices at all, I just wanted to point out that two STD are transmitted via skin to skin contact, as opposed to fluids or mucous membranes – herpes and HPV/genital warts. This means that while condoms do protect you more than no condom (less skin contact), they do not offer 100% protection. You can still get herpes from someone who has no visible signs of herpes while using a condom, unfortunately. Same for HPV.

  • http://alienus-kairos.blogspot.com Nolens Volens

    Well, my wife and I always have a discussion with other potential “playmates” about what they are willing to do and not willing to do. We have no problem with the boundaries they established as long as they respect ours.

  • Southern Vixen

    Wow. Where to begin. I really don’t know where, so here I go with no particular organization to these thoughts.

    I am a swinger. I have sex with multiple people. I have “safe sex” with every partner. I will not debate the phrase “safe sex” as it has been done to death already.

    As Hubman stated, all things in life involve some sort of risk. I choose to use condoms with every male partner during vaginal and anal sex. No, I do not use one during oral sex. This is my choice. I know there is risk involved and I don’t take it lightly. I will not go through my entire thought process about whether or not I will allow a man to ejaculate in my mouth, because frankly, it’s none of anyone’s business how I arrive at the decisions I make.

    Hubman, Veronica and I are grown, educated adults and we know what we’ve gotten ourselves into. We’ve made our decisions and that’s that.

    Hubman, Veronica – I love you guys. Thanks for addressing this! Cheers!

  • http://rtws.blogspot.com Emmy

    Great debate you have sparked here, Hubman!

    As Hubman and SV have said, they are adults and have decided to them what playing safe means. Like everything else with the lifestyle, communication with partners is critical. (Like how I threw that in for you again!)

    Hubman and Veronica have decided where the boundaries are. SV has decided what her boundaries are. This is no different than in any relationship – married or not, swinging or not. You have to decide what you will and won’t do, assess the risks, and live with your decisions. Any sexually active adult has gone through this at one point or another in their life.

    I am glad you talked about this in a post as it shows everyone that this is yet another conversation that needs to be have with your partner in considering the lifestyle.

  • lclassyfun

    we are condoms always for vaginal and anal. we have met couples who insist on no condoms and we’ve said thanks, but NO! i had honestly not thought about the oral thing – wow! something to think about. we do get tested :) i missed the whole southern vixen thing ( how hot ), i must catch up!!!

    thawing out in the south~ s

  • spin

    I foolishly take the risk. I have been tested. I am free of everything.
    I have only had sex with my lover and hubby recently. Lover (10yrs) feels safe with me, and me with him. Are we taking risk? Hell yes.
    He knows of all the others and still comes back. Knowing I have not practiced safe sex with them.
    very risky game to play. I fear catching something but still go back for more.
    Shame on me.

  • http://jormengrund-yetanotherdayinparadise.blogspot.com/ Jormengrund

    I just have to chime into this one after reading a couple of these comments..

    First off, “safe sex” practices really is a farce if you consider the sources..

    They tell you using a condom prevents STDs.

    This is true, as long as the condom is sound.

    However, failure rate on condoms varies. Some fail approximately 20-30% of the time.

    Couple this with the 99% effectiveness rating, and you’re really not protecting yourself as well as you’d claim.

    Someone commented that even a 1% risk is not safe sex.

    Then never have sex. That’s the bottom line. 99% leaves you open for that 1% chance, so stop crying, and get over it.

    In my humble opinion, if you and ASM are happy and comfortable with your actions, then yes, you’re doing your part.

    Should something happen, you both knew the risks, and were willing to push your boundaries.

    This is what adults do when they make decisions.

    Well spoken Hubman. Stick to your guns.

   

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