- posted on 30/07/2010 19:23
That’s Veronica’s euphemism for calling ourselves sluts, though I prefer “manwhore” for myself. This brings us to this weeks topic, which was suggested by a reader via e-mail a while back. She has 2 main points/questions and rather than burden you with a 1500+ word post, we’re going to split it up over 2 weeks. She wrote:
I just finished up reading ‘The Ethical Slut‘ .. I think that was one of the book titles you guys said you read already? I plan on leaving it in the bathroom and see if I can get my husband to read a few pages..
His thoughts/feelings on being a ‘Slut’ aren’t very clear and for some reason we’re having a hard time talking about it together.. I underlined some parts of the first chapter that really stuck out to me and I’m hoping will be good points to bring up with my hubs!
“A subset of this myth is the belief that if you’re really in love, you will automatically lose all interest in others; thus, if you’re having sexual or romantic feelings toward anyone but your partner, you’re not really in love. This belief has cost many people a great deal of happiness through the centuries yet is untrue to the point of absurdity: a ring around the finger does not cause a nerve block to the genitals.” – a quote on page 15 ..
What a great quote to someone that’s felt like they are crazy/strange/abnormal for feeling that way.. and maybe Veronica could chime in on the women’s point of view ..I guess it seems harder for me to have these feeling then if it was my husband bringing this topic up and trying to talk about it. It seems like the ‘regulars’ that hang around your blog have gotten past this part .. but for the lurkers out there (or occasional commenter like me ..) might be stuck on Chapter 1 .. in lots of areas of this adventure..
At one time I’m sure that I did write that we’ve read “The Ethical Slut”, it’s somewhere around the house, though it’s been a while since I’ve seen it and I can’t seem to find it.
Some people have trouble with the notion of a being considered a slut. I can distinctly remember a conversation with Veronica waaaaaaay back when we were first dating and we were sharing details of our sexual histories. Well, she was sharing hers, since I didn’t have one. Anyway, I knew that she had a half-dozen partners during her freshmen year at college and I asked, innocently I thought, how close in time any 2 of them ever were. I was curious if she ever slept with 2 different men in the course of one weekend. She reaction was less-than-cordial, let’s just say that!
Veronica: I thought you were going to be judgmental and my more active past was going to derail our budding relationship. That was the reason for any frostiness on my part. I thoroughly enjoyed myself with the people I fucked before meeting Hubman (and after). I would not even trade away even the bad sexual encounter, because without some bad sex, how can you really appreciate the awesomeness of great sex.
However I was very disappointed to learn that the double standard of male and female sexuality was alive and well in 1990. Thank God that this dosen’t happen any more and slut shaming died with the first Bush Presidency. *sarcasm*
Yes, I’m talking about the same woman who in the last year and a half has had one man in the mouth and another in her pussy on several occasions. The same woman who is looking forward to double penetration someday. Perhaps this is evidence that people, and their attitudes towards sex, can change!
Thinking about the word “slut”, I guess the bottom line is that I don’t really care what label someone uses to describe Veronica or myself. What I do know is that I love Veronica now more than ever, that we choose our extra-marital partners with care and respect, and never fail to remember that our primary relationship is the most important one. If we’re considered sluts or promiscuous by others, so what?
Veronica: Personally I think calling someone a ‘slut’ is so seventh grade. Hubman and I refer to ourselves as “Sexually Festive” or him as a “manwhore”, but it is done between the two of us with kidding and affection. Getting hung up on a label is something you really don’t want to do. I wonder if the husband is less hung up about the ‘slut’ label and more hung up about the implications of swinging.
Despite the assertions that ‘a ring around the finger is not a nerve block around the genitals’, asking your spouse to bring other people into your sex life is a loaded question. I don’t read enough other swinger, polyamory or open marriage blogs to know how everyone got there, but in our case it was a mutual decision that came after much discussion.
If Hubman had one day said, “Hey, lets try swinging” without any prior edging around the topic or at least some fantasizing, I would have been kind of insulted. And since we don’t know the couple in question who sent the e-mail we do not know how the topic was broached. However, I think that this would be one of the most carefully worded discussions a marriage can have.
I also want to comment on the idea about having romantic or sexual feelings for someone outside of my marriage. Many of my readers probably know that Southern Vixen is a great friend of ours. She and I were talking on the phone last week and at the end of the conversation, we said goodbye and “I love you”, “I love you too”. Hell, she and I have even shared those words while having sex, without Veronica around. Does that in any way diminish the love I have for Veronica? Of course not!
Veronica: It doesn’t because I know he does not love her the same way that he loves me. I also love SoVix, but I am not about to toss my marriage and go run away with her. (Although she does have warmer weather where she lives)
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Alright my friends, let’s hear it, what you do think of being called a slut? What do you think about our e-mailers situation with her husband and his attitude toward having multiple partners, thus making her a slut? Are swingers by definition sluts? And even if others think of us that way, does that perception bother anyone?
Next week we’ll address the second half of her message, which asked for thoughts about “starvation economy”, or the idea that a person only has so much love to give and if you share part of yourself with one person, other relationships will suffer. Looks like I really need to find my copy of The Ethical Slut and re-read parts of it!
Heh. I call the Man my manwhore.
I have no issue being called a slut. I think the definition is what you make of it. Society has put a negative connotation on the word (as it often does to anything that doesn’t fit in a box), and some people struggle with getting past that.
I am not able to formulate my thoughts on the situation about the emailers in a way that makes any kind of sense, so I’m not even going to try.
peace…
I prefer “I’m not promiscuous; I’m generous.”
I don’t care about being called a slut. That’s probably because anyone who I care about wouldn’t ever say that to me and the people who do don’t matter to me so their petty insults mean nothing to me, lol.
It is what you make of it. Society makes it a bad thing. It’s looked down upon to have a lot of sexual partners so people tend to see it as a bad thing. It’s another one of a ton of other subjective terms used to define people.
My boyfriend calls me a slut sometimes. That’s usually when we’re in bed though. It’s hot. So yeah, I don’t mind.
This was a great post.
Margaret- you make a good point about society. I think the e-mailers husband is perhaps hung up on the ‘norms’ of society and not just thinking about their relationship.
Britni- generous is good
Amorous Rocker- you also make a good point about society and our perceptions about certain behaviors. What is “slutty” to one person is perfectly normal to another. As if normal is something that could be defined…
Veronica also thinks it’s hot when I call her a slut in bed. Especially when I’m in her ass
Briefly on the “slut” issue — Yes, society has it’s labels, but in this case the issue appears to be what the Mr. thinks of the word and what the definiation means to him. If this particular person feels it’s derogatory or a slur, it is. Semantics matter and what he thinks of this word, and how it’s implications apply to his life and wife, are more vital than “society’s opinion.”
But in this case it doesn’t sound to me like the problem is so much the term but rather, as V said, the implications of swinging and the concepts and beliefs he’s held for probably a long time.
First, this couple sound a bit similar to Vince and I in that it’s the female half of the couple that brought the idea up. In our expereience, this is VERY RARE. Most of the people we spoke with and asked questions of would’ve been very compassionate if I was the hesitant one, yet these same people often treat Vince as if he’s some sort of man-defective if he isn’t just leaping at the chance to start swapping partners as if his freakin’ leash had been snapped.
Also, I made the mistake V mentioned about springing the subject on Vince and yes, intensely hurt feelings was one of bad results. There were also a host of others but the biggest — and here’s where the slut part comes in — was the fact that in order to move the conversation forward, he had to change his mind on everything he ever believed and acted on about being a “good husband,” a man of integrity, all the while wondering what the hell happened to his wife.
She also said, “His thoughts/feelings on being a ‘Slut’ aren’t very clear and for some reason we’re having a hard time talking about it together..” Man, can I relate. This may have no bearing on the couple since she doesn’t describe her Mr.’s personality but if he is more of a “traditional introvert” it truly may be harder for him. Again, most of the men in the LS that we’ve encountered were the ones who suggested swinging and most of those were very expressive people. Vince simply isn’t like that and as his wife, it can be very challenging. Again, it doesn’t help for someone to say “he should be a better communicator” because that puts him on the defensive and makes the problem about “him” as opposed to getting the communication we both so desperately need. Vince doesn’t like to be out of flux, and conversations about the implications of swinging definitely put him on uncertain ground. I’ve found that when his communication isn’t clear, it’s because he’s in the process of changing an opinion, OR he knows it’s not what I want to hear and he doesn’t want to hurt/disappoint me, OR he really doesn’t know what he thinks about the topic at that specific moment.
One of these days I’m going to learn to write shorter, pithy responses but ’til then, I hope this adds another perspective to your already wonderful Swing Shift!
Ivey
Going back to what “society” thinks, a lot of people, but especially the sex positive community, seems to think that every man is secretly holding back his desire to fuck any woman he sees and is just waiting on his partner’s OK to act out the multitude of fantasies he surely has kept locked away and supressed. But, and this is big, that is not true of every man. I haven’t read the Ethical Slut, but I have read a lot of swinger blogs and others, I think a lot of emphasis is going to be placed on the label “slut” and not on the very important semantics of the word.
Sorry so long, but
What the hell happened to my paragraphs at the end? Jeez! Bear with me people, I think I had a misplaced cursor.
Sexually festive….that’s awesome. Have to remember that.
Oh hey! I know who emailed that to you!!
And I’m loving the word Sexually festive! ..
Yes, I think my husband is “traditional introvert” ..it’s hard to think of him that way because he’s not like that around me or his family/friends. But he is a large % of that.
We actually haven’t spoken to much about it ..and I kinda put my feelings out there and told him how I felt.. and if he ever wanted to explore that with me .. that I was willing and waiting. So ..um..?? we’ll see what happens!?
I know (from our talks) that he’s smart enough to see past the societal hang ups ..and that maybe the rules of monogamy need to be reexamined..but I also know (when I brought of the thought of being able to love more than one at a time) he doesn’t seem to believe in poly relationships working out without sacrificing our relationship.
So ..maybe by this being posted we can start up another conversation on this topic..?
Thanks so much for posting this!
yes, guys. I love you. You both know how I feel. And yes, it is very different love than we feel towards our spouses and our significant others. But I always know that you guys are there. Isn’t that what love is all about? (I’ll be needing you guys soon…I’m a tad fragile.)
I love you, you Sexually Festive pair!
With more sexually festive love,
SoVix
It seems to me the whole idea of a slut stems from what Freud called the Madonna-whore complex. Almost all men love sluts. Most just don’t want to marry one. The men who lacked healthy love from their mother will certainly not want to marry one. But they will most definitely fuck whores on the side or have a mistress. It’s such a silly psychological game, which for some of us is fun. As Hubman said, Veronica enjoys being called a slut in bed, yet she describes herself as sexually festive outside of the bedroom. When he’s fucking her in the ass, she doesn’t want him to say, “Oh yeah baby, you’re sexually festive, aren’t you?” Doesn’t quite have a naughty ring to it, does it? It simply comes down to how comfortable you are with your sexuality. That doesn’t mean the more comfortable you are, the more likely you are to swing. It just means you accept yourself and your partner for what you are sexually. It could be monogamous or polygamous or somewhere in between. I’m sure there’s more to it, but Freud is the first thing that came to mind.
I remember having phone sex a lot back when AOL was popular. I’d chat with someone online and then we’d decide to talk on the phone. Well, I must have done this 50 times over the course of a couple of years and the thing that struck me most was how particular words have such a huge effect on people. It got to the point where I would literally ask which words were ok to say ahead of time because I found that one wrong word would often ruin the mood. I just assumed they liked to talk dirty since, after all, we were having phone sex! But “talking dirty” is sooooo subjective. They’d say… Don’t say slut, say whore. Don’t say cunt, say pussy. Do say cunt! NEVER say pussy. Call me a bitch, but never a whore… and on and on and on. It really was an amazing education in and of itself.
I for one embrace my better half as both a loving caring mother of my children and a filthy slut. And although we have yet to experience this fantasy in real life, if what we do and say in the bedroom is any indication, she will soon be a practicing, double-penetrated, cock gobbling slut.
Okay.. Like you said, ‘slut’ means different things to different people. To me, the definition tends to lean towards the negative, one who is indiscriminate in their choice of partners, the irresponsible.. However, the term ‘generous’ is an excellent (and positive) substitute!!
Oh, I’m a slut. After having sex with 3 guys at the house party – my DP experience – my MFM-somes…..I totally own the label and am fine with it.
I do like generous and sexually festive too!
~Emmy